Deism - for the unsatisfied seeker's topics - tribe.net

For Atheists

Don — Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:49:00 GMT

Message to Atheists:
Teach me the reasons for believing in nothing but in the space between two ears. All my life I have felt there is something out there that I can not define; it tugs and pulls during the full moons. It keeps telling me there is some reason for reason. So, I come here to you who proudly wave the flag of absolute certainty in the nonexistence of a God, a creator, an intelligent design, a destroyer, etc... It seems to me that you would find total inner peace with such knowledge and have no reason to run some of the most complex strings of English that mankind can muster. So then, I ask, teach me so I may know what it is that you have found so I too can live and die with the certainty that the next stop is a black hole and even this request meant absolutely nothing in the bigger scheme of things.

posted in Deism - for the unsatisfied seeker - 5 replies

Mother Nature - The Goddess

Rocky — Sat, 18 Mar 2006 17:57:00 GMT

G'day all,

This is an article that comes from a Native American Indian / Pagan view point & I enjoyed it so, I thought I'd share it here. I found it in a magazine titled "Branches" out of Indianapolis, Indiana - www.branches.com .

Ancient Memory
by Diana Ensign

"The process of the cultural change is along and difficult one. The laws, the language, the economic and social system do not yet reflect our vision. We are discovering and creating myths and symbols and rituals that do. We need images that move us beyond language, law, and custom; that hurl us beyond the boundaries of our lives to that space between the worlds, where we can see clear."
~ Starhawk (The Spiral Dance)

From where is the feminine emerging; what led to her subjugation; and what is prompting her re-birth?

Merlin Stone's classic book "When God Was a Woman" explores the ancient Goddess religion and how religion reflects our attitudes toward women. As she says, "Though we live amid high-rise steel buildings, Formica counter tops, and electronic television screens, there is something in all of us, women and men alike, that makes us feel deeply connected to the past." Stone studied female images dating back to 25,000 BCE - Goddess figures unearthed across Europe and Asia and from Spain to Russia.

She writes, "In the beginning, people prayed to the Creatress of Life, the Mistress of Heaven. At the very dawn of religion, God was a woman. Do you remember?" Of course, the widespread burnings of women, the creation of a male God who represents authority, punishment and revenge; the writing of a new Holy book; and the celebration of state-sponsored religious holidays all did much to wipe out our collective memory - although there are some women and men who have made valiant efforts to keep our connections to the past alive.

Starhawk, in "The Spiral Dance", writes, "Spirituality and politics both involve changing consciousness." She adds, "The feminist movement has prompted the culture as a whole to re-examine questions of maleness and femaleness. For the definitions are no longer working. They are oppressive to women and confining to men. In this process of transformation, the Goddess and the Old Gods can open doorways for us into new dimensions of our own possibilities, for they are not just symbols but channels of power. Yet, we must also be willing to examine how our own interpretations have been shaped by the limitations of our vision."

If we want a new consciousness, we have to be honest about what we have done to the feminine, to the planet and to each other. We have to be mindful of words such as "Goddess", "Witch", and "Mother Nature". To allow Goddess into our vocabulary and to understand the ancient feminine symbols - and then to look, all across the globe, at the destruction done to women, men, children and the planet in the name of "RELIGION" - is to begin to understand why we must change our thinking.

Z Budapest writes in "The Holy Book of Women's Mysteries": "Each time we talk about the Goddess, what we really mean is LIFE - life on earth. We always recognize, when we say "goddess", that she is the life-giver, the life-sustainer. She is the Mother Nature." She says that it is the Mother who carries the children. Female and male in the Mother's womb; female and male in her religion as well. ...All male-god worshipping religions which have no life force represented in the form of the Female Principle of the Universe end up being exclusive." She notes that "nine million women, men and children were burned alive in Europe to rid the land of the last vestiges of nature religions and gain the property of the accused. To the eternal shame of the Christians, nobody stood up to stop this 300-year massacre. Even today, there has been no calling for an accounting of responsibility around this issue."

So why concern ourselves with the feminine, the witch burnings, the co-opting of religion to satisfy political ends? To change our path, we must understand how we got here. Understanding requires knowledge. From there, we move forward. We make choices. We decide what is sacred: the feeding of children, the trees in the yard, the sun in the sky. We no longer let others decide for us what is moral and we do not hand over moral authority to anyone who does not respect the sacredness of all of life on this planet. We learn not to play homage to a war God of revenge.

As Starhawk says, "Mother Goddess is reawakening, and we can begin to recover our primal birthright, the sheer, intoxicating joy of being alive. We can open new eyes and see that there is nothing to be saved from, no struggle of life against the universe, no God outside the world to be feared and obeyed, only the Goddess, the Mother, the turning spiral that whirls us in and out of existence, whose winking eye is the pulse of being - birth, death, rebirth - whose laughter bubbles and courses through all things and who is found only through love: love of trees, of stones, of sky, and clouds"

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posted in Deism - for the unsatisfied seeker - 0 replies

A Tropical Rain Forest Event

Punjab — Mon, 13 Mar 2006 01:53:19 GMT

Hello,

I’m letting all of the tribes know about a regional event coming up soon – Rebirth. Burning Man, but rather than radical desert survival – radical tropical rain forest survival. Details of the event can be found here:

http://www.kapilina.org/bigisland/rebirth2006.html

Hawaii… Fire spinning capital of the world… Big Island… Hot tub ponds heated by thermal vents… Black Sand Beaches… LAVA… REAL LAVA! And a Burning Man regional event.

I’ve tried to figure out how to reduce costs as much as possible for everyone coming over from the mainland (if you can think of anyother suggestions please post):

Rideshare thread from the airport to puna here:
http://kapilina.tribe.net/thread/5438fe28-b674-4c10-9bed-3334aae6f4e3

Cheap Airfare From Mainland:
vacations.travelzoo.com/hawaii.../229965

www.airtech.com/specials.html

Shipping Art/Supplies:
http://kapilina.tribe.net/thread/daca9206-f7a4-4c58-a763-49b96731a584

Again if you know cheaper means please repost. See you all there!

posted in Deism - for the unsatisfied seeker - 0 replies

Which of the founding fathers were Deists?

Rocky — Mon, 27 Feb 2006 16:55:31 GMT

Which of the founding fathers were Deists & who were shown NOT to be or proven to be Xian?

I'm wondering about Thomas Jefferson. He was a Deist that held tolerance for other religious views right?

http://www.sullivan-county.com/id3/jefferson_deist.htm

posted in Deism - for the unsatisfied seeker - 5 replies

An invitation

DrunkPhilosopher — Tue, 21 Feb 2006 06:34:35 GMT

To my new tribe
http://tribes.tribe.net/drunkenramblings

posted in Deism - for the unsatisfied seeker - 0 replies

"Suns of God" - DVD

Rocky — Fri, 30 Sep 2005 23:41:37 GMT

Acharya S appears on the Broadband Learning Channel. See the first online video interview of Acharya S!

In this one-of-a-kind interview, Acharya discusses her background and motivation in studying the fields of religion and mythology. She demonstrates the true origins of religious worship, both ancient and modern. Acharya also shows many common points between Christianity and Paganism.

In this BBLC interview, Acharya discusses:

-- Astrotheology and sun worship
-- The Gospel story as mythology
-- Holy Grail legends
-- The famous Mysteries
-- The Brotherhood network
-- The Apostle Paul and his journeys and epistles
-- Religious fanaticism...

The online video - http://bblc.tv/rebels.htm

Acharya S - Archaeologist, Historian, Mythologist, Linguist. Member American School of Classical Studies at Athens, Greece Fellow, Committee for the Scientific Examination of Religion. Author, "The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold" and "Suns of God: Krishna, Buddha and Christ Unveiled"
http://www.truthbeknown.com

If you like that then, you'll love The "Suns of God" DVD by Acharya with over 100 photos. A must have DVD.

http://store.adventuresunlimitedpress.com/store.lasso?sub=detail&sid=FF673AA12CBA5A&item=23227

"The Origins of Christianity and the Quest for the Historical Jesus Christ" -
http://www.truthbeknown.com/origins.htm

"Acharya S is the ranking religious philosopher of our era."
~ John Kaminski

"Acharya S deserves to be recognized as a leading researcher and an expert in the field of comparative mythology, on a par with James Frazer or Robert Graves--indeed, superior to those forerunners in the frankness of her conclusions and the volume of her evidence."
~ Barbara Walker

"Amidst global chaos, Acharya S is the voice of reason."
~ Joan D'Arc

P.P.S. You may need to download Quicktime--go to the "Help" page at BBLC. Also note that you will need Internet Explorer or Netscape, as Mozilla does not appear to work. Loading the video might take some time.

http://www.truthbeknown.com/help.htm
http://bblc.tv

-----

Also enjoy the "Solar Mythology ~ Astrotheology" tribe - http://tribes.tribe.net/solarmythologynastrotheology?_click_path=Application%5Btribe%5D.Tribe%5Bcdfc5730-2b2d-4b50-9a3d-205d6ea091a0%5D&r=10389

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posted in Deism - for the unsatisfied seeker - 1 reply

A DEISTIC SATIRICAL TAKE ON THE GARDEN OF EDEN

Don — Sun, 22 May 2005 02:15:40 GMT

A DEISTIC SATIRICAL TAKE ON

THE GARDEN OF EDEN

by David Bunch

ACT ONE

1. God created the world and two people named Adam and Eve, with whom he intended to populate the world.

2. One day, while God was not looking, the Devil came and captured Adam and Eve.

3. Adam and Eve were imprisoned in the Devil's garden called "Eden." God spoke to his eternal foe and asked for the return of his people. But the Devil, being fond of his new pets, refused.

4. God resolved to liberate Adam and Eve. Taking the shape of a serpent, God sneaked into the Devil's garden.

5. Sensing that Eve was the more insightful of the pair, God approached her.

6. God said to Eve, "If you will listen to me, I know a way for you to escape your imprisonment."

7. Eve said, "But Mr. Serpent, I do not wish to escape Eden. I like it here. This garden has everything I need."

8. God said, "You do not know what you are missing. Outside of this garden is an entire world, much larger than a mere garden. This world was created for your use. You will be much more satisfied there."

9. Eve said, "Really? I need to discuss this with Adam."

10. God said, "No, don't do that! Listen to me. In the far part of the garden there is a tree, called the Tree of Knowledge. Eat from this tree, and trick Adam into doing the same. Then you will know of the world at large, and your true mission in life."

11. And so Eve did as God asked. She and Adam ate from the Tree of Knowledge. They knew at once of the world outside and they were astonished to know how large and beautiful it was.

12. The Devil, sensing a disturbance, came into his garden to check on things. He was surprised to find that Adam and Eve had put on clothing and were building a boat out of fallen trees. He knew at once that they discovered the Tree of Knowledge.

13. The Devil was very cross. He spoke to Adam and Eve. "You think you are smart now! The world outside is not as grand as you think it is. In here - you are safe and taken care of. Out there - you must work and suffer."

14. Adam spoke. "We know of the world at large and our true potential. What you say may be true, but we do not want to live in a state of perpetual dependence. We are going to leave this garden and take our chances in the world."

15. Adam and Eve climbed into their boat and floated down river, exiting Eden.

16. The Devil began looking about his garden. By and by, he found a serpent that was not his own. The Devil spoke, "I see you now, God. I wish to confront you."

17. God resumed his natural shape. God and the Devil stood facing each other. God spoke. "Those people were my creation, and I intended to populate the world with them. You stole them from me and now I have stolen them back."

18. The Devil spoke. "You are clever God, but I am more clever still. Adam and Eve will populate the world, but once they have done this, I will find a way to turn their descendants into my servants."

19. God spoke. "You shall not succeed. I will place a part of myself inside of each new born child. This shall be called the "heart." The people of my world will never be separated from me - and they will never serve you."

20. "We shall see," said the Devil.

ACT TWO

1. Adam and Eve entered into the world. There they worked and suffered just as the Devil said they would, but even so they felt satisfaction. They knew they were doing that for which they were created.

2. Adam and Eve parented many children and these children parented many more. By and by, the world became full of the progeny of Adam and Eve. God was pleased.

3. The Devil was not pleased. The success of his rival irritated him greatly. The Devil tried repeatedly to enslave the progeny of Adam and Eve but he was not successful.

4. Thwarting the Devil with every attempt was the heart, that part of God that existed inside of every person.

5. The Devil thought to himself, "It appears that the only way I can enslave these people is if I somehow convince them to stop following their own hearts. I must be crafty."

6. The Devil hatched a crooked plan. He took the form of a spirit and spoke to an impressionable man named Abraham.

7. "Listen to me, Abraham, for I am the Lord God," said the Devil. "All of humanity is born separate from me. But I have chosen your people to be my special people. I will teach you how to reunite yourselves with me." Abraham felt a rush of pride at having been chosen and he agreed to do the Devil's bidding.

8. For the following months and years the Devil instructed Abraham and his people. He taught them elaborate and absurd rituals. This the Devil knew, would keep their minds focused on external things and thus keep them from looking inside - where the heart dwelt.

9. The people of Abraham performed their rituals with great diligence. They believed that by performing rituals, they were uniting themselves with God. When in fact, they were separating themselves from God.

10. The Devil was pleased with his success. He searched the world and found other men like Abraham. Soon the world was rife with ritualism, and divided into hostile tribes.

ACT THREE

1. God saw what the Devil was doing but he did not fret. For the heart, placed inside each person is not just the connection between God and humanity. The heart is also the source of inspiration and therefore creativity.

2. God knew that tribes who became ritualistic would also loose their ability to invent new things. These tribes would fall behind, and be conquered by other, more advanced tribes.

3. And so it came to pass that the Devil's primary weapon was ritualism and God's primary weapon was secularism. Some centuries, the Devil enjoyed the upper hand and some centuries God did.

4. The battle never did end. It goes on today much as it did in Abraham's time. The battle never will end either. It will go on and on, Ad Infinitum.

posted in Deism - for the unsatisfied seeker - 5 replies

Why Deism never hit the big time.

Don — Mon, 30 May 2005 08:20:30 GMT

I believe Deism never evolved into a major belief system because it requires us to accept that we are to blame for everything that is wrong or right about our lives and society. If we do (or allow others to do) immoral or unethical things in the name of god or country or corporation, then we can not never know god.

Christianity allows us to simply offload our sins on the Devil or Jesus or George Bush or Saddam Hussein or our parents, etc... God and the Devil become placeholders, convenient repositories for our accountability.

With such a belief system, we will never find god or any peace of mind. We will always be at the mercy of what the chosen few who run our governments, corporations, churches, and mass media tell us to be the truth.

This thinking is what allows Christians and the Muslims to justify the taking of lives in the name of their god by the hands of their countrymen. Not to mention the trillions in financial value to the defense industry, from war profiteering, and in reconstruction contracts.

I think everyone can relate to the feeling (or the understanding) of love and evil and with the connection to something that is beyond the self, beyond explanation or description. This is the core of all religions and all belief systems.

This feeling (or understanding) comes from the invisible interconnection between all living things and not from some white man in the clouds pulling on our puppet strings and keeping a log book on our every thought as he prepares a recipe for our punishment.

The notion that this connection has been placed in ALL men and in EQUAL portions by the creator has not been taught by any Western religion. The selfish ego and enormous pockets of priests and ministers require they take the role of mystical guides who know god better than anyone else; as the chosen few who can show us the pathway to god and eternal salvation.

Priests can’t make any money telling people everything they need is already inside and all they have to do is accept that all men are equal and to love all others as they love themselves.

The power of coming to understand this most simple of concepts is truly liberating and opens the mind to new realities never before imagined.

Can you even imagine a life without fear, distrust, embarrassment, shame, guilt, anger, hatred, violence, or war?

Do you think there are people in the world who live this way?

If you could live this way, what would you give and give up to have such a life?

Are you willing to take responsibility for yourself and to fully accept, love, and forgive yourself “as-is” and to throw away the immoral and unethical behavior you have justified in the past?

Rev

posted in Deism - for the unsatisfied seeker - 0 replies

Why I cannot Kill

Don — Tue, 26 Apr 2005 07:31:15 GMT

Why I Cannot Kill
By Rev.
April 25, 2005

Ever since I was a small boy, I have had no ability to comprehend why one man would or could kill another. I grew up with the Vietnam War. I watched the gruesome scenes every night alone on my thirteen inch black and white. I observed dozens, scores, hundreds, and eventually thousands of boys, not much older than I, lying on the ground only distinguishable by the tattered, blood soaked uniforms they wore.

Body counts were as common as weather reports. Although I never thought about it in 1968, my mind must have perceived some connection between the dead boys on the ground and the boys like me watching the TV. Who were these boys? Why were they dead? What will their family and friends think when they don’t come home? What was their last thought as they lay bleeding in pain, alone in a swamp on the other side of the world?

I can almost see through their eyes, hear through their ears, and think their thoughts. They don’t bother much me in times of peace, but whenever our government starts sending more boys and now girls off to some distant land to kill other people and be killed, they rise up and shout: Why are you sitting there? Why are you not doing anything to stop the killing? We need you to tell our brothers and sisters the truth about war!

I cannot help but feel a duty to allow them to live on through me in some way. Every last one of them is screaming: No more war, let me go home, I want to hug my mom, my wife, my girlfriend, my baby!

As long as I have a voice, I will proudly stand as an American, as a father, and as a man of peace. I will speak out for those boys who never had a chance to grow up and enjoy their full lives. Thankfully, I cannot kill because the part of me that could have been misled into thinking war was acceptable, was killed as I gazed at the motionless, blood covered bodies of boys just like me. This is exactly why the government and mass media no longer show us the reality of war on TV anymore.

I can’t bring them home, but I can tell my younger brothers and sisters to think long and hard about the truth and the reality of war, right now, before they march off to a sandy grave. My purpose here is not to convert, but to enlighten. Because “Being All That You Can Be” or becoming a “One Man Army” are great and twisted commercial advertising slogans designed for one reason. That reason is to attract young people with no real knowledge or information about war, politics, and economics and who have few visible choices for a good future in America to sign on the bottom line. Few kids from well off families think a second about joining the front-line, they think about which ivy league school and which fortune 500 company they will work for.

I have known several military men who had not seen death and destruction and had not felt a bullet. None have told a story of being “all they could have been.” Most told of a bloated, antiquated, and wasteful bureaucracy that could barely house, clothe, and feed them. I have known several military men that did feel a bullet; that did kill other people and even young children. I have known military men who knew and later watched those boys that I only saw laying on the ground on television actually get killed. None of these men told a story of “being all they could have been” or felling like a “One Man Army.” They only told a story of great sadness, disappointment, anger, frustration, guilt, and shame. Those who didn’t come back from their tour of duty have been silenced for eternity. What would they have to say about war if they could rise up and come back today?

Fortunately for me, the war ended when I was eighteen and only once when I was sixteen did I truly feel the fear of what my older brothers felt as they pondered their fate in the draft lottery. That was the day when the military came to my school and called all students who were eighteen and over to the office. I will never forget the face of the one boy in my class who stood up and the absolute silence as he walked out the door.

Over 57,000 of my brothers died and over 300,000 were wounded and untold millions were scarred mentally for life. If you didn’t live through that era, the only way to connect to the reality of it would be to visit the Vietnam Wall in Washington DC. If you go around sun down, the stored energy of grief held in that place is simply overwhelming. Then you too will hear and see the boys calling out for their loved ones.

We have but one life to live on this planet. Nobody has the right, neither by approval of their gods or their governments to take the one, non-replaceable life we have to live.

Bombing and killing Muslims will not cease the extremist’s hatred for America. It will only add fuel to their fires for countless generations. The root cause of this hatred is ignorance due to generations of misinformation, and the lack of the appropriate tools, resources, infrastructure, and education to build a better future. We are just as much a group of demons to be eliminated to some Muslims as they are to some Christians. Our destruction of an entire country’s infrastructure and the murder of over 100,000 Iraqi people is frankly much much much worse than the act of a nineteen Saudi Arabian madmen who managed to take down our a few office towers and a small section of the Pentagon.

The Saudi terrorists managed to kill 3,000 American’s, put a ripple in our world economy and induce fear in hundreds of millions of people. Now we are invoking World War III, at a cost of millions of our tax dollars per day. This is of course precisely what the Saudi terrorists, the defense industry, the reconstruction industry, and the oil industry wanted and we are giving it to them with the blood of our children.

If you wanted revenge, I think we have it. We have already killed thirty times the number of non-Americans and over 1,500 more of our own people. Unfortunately, we didn’t attack Saudi Arabia, the country that sent fifteen of the nineteen hi-jackers.

I grew up near the George Washington Bridge, I attended college classes in downtown Manhattan and I have enjoyed the view from the top of the World Trade Center several times. I have felt deep sadness for all the innocent people who have lost their lives and feel the grief of their loved ones. However, at no time did my mind focus on revenge or retaliation against the innocent people who happen to look like the suspected masterminds or who happened to temporarily reside in their country or region. In fact, the United States of America supported Osama Bin Laden as a Freedom Fighter against the Russians just a short time ago. Shouldn’t we be punishing ourselves for also being supporters of terrorism? The Islamic fanatics nearly took the Twin Towers down from the ground in 1993. Shouldn’t our leaders have been thinking they were going to try again?

The rapid deployment of our war machine against an unknown enemy almost seems well rehearsed. We have immediate backing of 99% our ever-disagreeing congress and a horribly skewed poll of 1,000 American’s that concludes 90% of over 200 million American adults agree we should immediately declare war and spend hundreds of billion of dollars to start it and keep it going.

As of this writing, we have sent over 1,500 American soldiers and scores of civilian’s to their deaths in Iraq and over 11,000 have been “officially” wounded. The long-term psychological and physical issues of having to kill, and to witness killings is never tabulated. In twenty years, those boys will be standing on corners looking for your spare change, holding signs that say: “Iraq Veteran, God Bless America.” You will think to yourself; “another drunk or drug addict is using the war, god and country as a way to sucker me out of a quarter.”

I could no more drive a bayonet through the heart of a misguided, undernourished, uneducated Arab than I could drive it though a loved family pet or my own child. Life is precious and sacred. No amount of patriotic propaganda, flag waiving, and statements of God Bless America can ever convince me to take up that bayonet against another man. Regardless of how much another man hates me or what I represent; no matter how many of my brothers tell me I am a coward or un-American; I could not take a life in the name of God or Country or economic prosperity. I believe the vast majority of American’s and human beings in general share this innate sense of maintaining peace with our fellow man.

I was raised to believe that all men are created equal and our Declaration of Independence clearly establishes that all American’s have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Taking up my bayonet against another man in a foreign county is in no way in alignment with these inalienable rights.

The first amendment of the Bill of Rights allows me to speak and publish what ever I think regardless of its popularity among the TV audience or the Politicians, the Theologians, the FBI, or the guys in the tavern on the corner. It is this Right that I test here and now. It is my deepest belief that most of my brothers agree with me in spirit, but fear what others may think of them should they voice a thought not first hatched by the corporate mass media, the church, the public school system, or the politician. Many are too confused by the propaganda and fearful of more terrorist attacks to stop and question what our leadership is doing.

Should hoards of barbarians invade our shores, I will raise my bayonet and take as many souls as my strength allows me. Until that day, please join me in taking a stand against war. This is America, I am a third generation American; I don’t want anymore of my young brothers to die for me, I want the soldiers to stay home and hug their mom’s, wives, and babies.

Don’t be afraid to speak up for peace and the fair and equitable treatment of all people in the global economy. Only together can we hold back the well-financed billionaire corporate warmongers around the world who cry out for more weapons of mass destruction and more contracts to rebuild the places they force us to destroy and die for in the name of freedom and democracy. As I write this the Asian Development Bank has concluded that funding pipelines in Afghanistan is now “viable and feasible.” This and Iraq’s vast oil reserves is what corporate America wanted all along and they paid their lobbyists and funded their supporters election funds to get exactly what they wanted. When will we wake up as a people and put a stop to this sickening manipulation of our citizens and soldiers?

By now you have formulated an opinion of my character as a person. If you label me a Pacifist, Socialist, Communist, or Anti-American; you have entirely missed my point and the point of the American Revolution, our Constitution, and the Bill of Rights. I am not a corporate public relations manager, a TV news producer, or political speech writer. I care nothing about left or right or Democrat or Republican. I am your brother, your neighbor, your coworker, and your fellow American. An American who knows freedom cannot exist in a society based on the overwhelming single source of controlled, filtered, and biased information we find on our TV sets.

Turn off the TV and mainstream radio, put down the major daily papers. Their messages are designed for maximum acceptance of their advertisers and owners. The elites need maximum division of the masses. Maximum division ensures confusion and distrust and allows the “enlightened few” to control the masses. Study the history of American and British involvement with Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Pakistan, Israel, and other Middle Eastern countries over the last 60 years. You will be amazed at the level of involvement of America and Great Britain in the structuring of the Middle East.

Did it ever dawn on you to wonder why so many people around the world hate “us” so much? Do you really think it has anything to do with our lifestyle or political and legal systems here at home? Have you ever lived in these other places?

Formulate your own deep questions and demand fact based logical answers. My fear is that many of my fellow American’s no longer has the capacity, the time, the energy, and the appropriate information sources to see clearly through the cloud of emotion based propaganda. I see only small groups of radicals trying in desperation to attract our attention. The vast majority of us are simply on auto-pilot, watching for the next corporate news report.

American government and global corporations have changed the signs on the doors of the Afghan and Iraqi capitols. Other small countries that happen to have some valuable natural resources or strategic geographical position will also fall by American force over time. The truth is that America is totally dependent on the whims of the Saudi Oil Sheiks. If the Saudi’s want to raise prices (which is now at an all time high), we have to pay or our economy will grind to a halt.

Instead of launching a full scale national emergency to develop alternate energy sources, we allow the oil industry billionaires to use our poor and minority children’s lives to secure some more crude reserves. Oil will inevitably run dry at some point between thirty and seventy years from now. If things continue to be managed they way they are today, our greedy leaders will hold off spending a penny on new energy until it’s too late and we will collapse into a long depression. This won’t matter to massive global conglomerates as they don’t depend on any one county. Maintaining our livelihoods and American way of life is of no special importance to globalists.

Terrorists are small groups of extremists who have been conditioned to believe that murder is necessary to gain attention to their causes. Terrorists have existed throughout history and will continue to exist for all time.

Armies are large groups of people who have been conditioned to believe that murder is necessary to advance the agenda of their national leaders. The agenda is never spelled out in detail for the soldier or the citizen. The only thing that matters is that we all follow the leader. If you want war, please report to the front line for duty and show us some real American moral and ethical behavior, anything less is clearly a sign of insincerity and reaffirms the power of the weapons of mass media over otherwise good, decent American people.

Don’t worry, people like me will disappear and TV land will take great care in formulating your opinions for you. I don’t let somebody else do my thinking and speaking for me, why do you let others do it for you?

“Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people don't want war: neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”

The above comment was made to Gustave Gilbert by Hermann Goering, a high ranking Nazi officer, during his Nuremberg war crimes trial.

posted in Deism - for the unsatisfied seeker - 0 replies

The Silent Majority

Don — Mon, 07 Feb 2005 11:23:00 GMT

America

210 million adult citizens of voting age

29% or 61 million say Bush is right.

27% or 57 million say Kerry is right.

44% or 92 million said NOTHING!

The following is my response to a black Catholic man named Joe. He and his wife and children lived in the south and they toiled to establish a Catholic University in the land of the Protestants. Christians are Christian’s right? Well not exactly, and Joe and his family eventually had to move far way for their safety.

Our western economic system is based on division and this division is multidimensional and the layers are mostly invisible. We all are trapped in the layer we happened to end up in when we were born. Some of us find our way into the next higher or lower layer depending on enumerable circumstances and events that we have little control over.

Joe, you and your wife are excellent examples as you both worked very hard to do all the right things within your layer, in principal few would disagree with your efforts and most would applaud them. However, few will stand up and fight for what is right when they are called to the table. The bigger system has many other divisions to stir up which work against any significant change to the overall status quo.

The key dividing lines between the layers are based on wealth and power. All governments and religions are man made systems designed to maintain socioeconomic hierarchies that can remain reasonably stable with the maximum skew possible in the distribution of wealth and power.

See table 672 at http://www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/04statab/income.pdf
for a hint as to what I mean.

Unfortunately and not accidentally the chart only segregates the top 5% and if it were to segregate the top 1% and 0.1%, your mind would blow to see how the vast majority of all growth in the last 25 years has been funneled to the top one million or so individuals in America.

Today, as always, the best way for anyone to move up the socioeconomic ladder is by starting near the top. Obviously, we have no control over our starting place and if we started near the top, we would not be interested in change. The next best way to improve yourself is to get as much education as you can afford and make as many contacts as you can make with the folks that have the keys to the next layer you seek to enter.

Now even after all the hard work, most of us find ourselves trying to bring along our old layer into the new one and this cannot happen without a critical mass of fellow travelers within our layer all working in unity towards the same change in the system. Ask yourself, what unified layer or even undivided segment of any layer does any of us actually exist in?

Are American’s united, no. Are Oregonian’s united, no. Are Portlander’s united, no. Are the people on my block united, no. Are the people in my house united, (for me almost, I have one who battles). Are men united, no. Are middle-aged men united, no. Are blacks united, no. Are whites united, no. Are followers of Jesus united (hell no).

John Lennon dreamed; imagine all the people living as one. Yes, I can imagine it and I can imagine space men bringing back Coca-Cola to their planet not realizing it causes a deadly virus which will wipe out their entire race.

As for the non Catholics pulling in the opposite direction of what they know to be an honorable humanitarian endeavor, it should be now obvious that this is the condition you would have expected before you started if you would have only known now what you didn’t know then (a common theme in our society).

Sure, one may call themselves a Christian, Jew, Muslim, Humanist, Agnostic, or even an Atheist; but these are all nothing more than divisions of man which are further divided by various interpretations of the books and authors that lay their foundations.

If there is one god, god cannot be divided and his words can never be misinterpreted. Man does not need another man to act as a translator to understand god.

Why do others pull when we push? Mostly out of fear, fear of the unknown. If we are ignorant of another group from another division or layer, we resist their efforts to change the system. Even worse is the fact that the leaders of any large segment of the system tend to spread rumors and lies within their sphere of control to ensure maximum fear and confusion. Fear and confusion renders individuals helpless as we cannot make a sound decision, pro or con, and we are left with avoidance, apathy, and frustration. The leaders are left exactly where they want to be, in control.

If I were a well positioned, white, Baptist, born and raised in Georgia in a long established family, I too would be concerned about a black Catholic from Boston creating an establishment of potential wealth and power in my backyard that did not include my name on the founders list. People who would otherwise attend my Baptist schools and churches may instead attend a growing Catholic establishment and we couldn’t have that. (I think you get my point)

I am sure most of you reading this far have noticed that most of the big questions that come to our attention for a vote end up being nearly perfectly split 51/49. What does this tell us? It tells us that those in control of large blocks of money, power, and our mass communications systems have learned how to maintain a perpetual division of the people through promotion of misinformation (propaganda). In fact, the system is so perfected that it really makes no difference what figure head leads it. The figure head is nothing more than the face for those in control of wealth so vast that we simply cannot comprehend it.

If we took the range of earnings of all employed American’s and drew a line in the middle, the person smack in the middle (50% higher and 50% lower) would have to work twenty-four years to gross one million dollars and he or she would have nothing left after taxes, debts, and living expenses to hang their hat on. It takes the wealthiest American less than three hours to enjoy another million dollars. The poor guy way down at number one million on the list from the top has to toil for several weeks before he gets his next million.

Take any issue and break it into two opposing halves. Since our system is so efficient at maintaining confusion, each half attracts half of the population and each individual on either side of the pie has choices to make which include making no choice at all (the most popular choice). The Presidential Election is a great example: America has 210 million citizens of voting age; 57 million voted for Kerry, 61 million voted for Bush, and 92 million voted for no President. Ninety-two million either didn’t vote for President or they never even bothered to register to vote. Ninety-two million is the vast majority of American adults and they are lost in confusion and total apathy and this is not by accident.

See: http://www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/04statab/election.pdf
table 407 and extrapolate 2000 figures to 2004.

Election results: http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/

So we can say that in any important issue requiring a vote from the “People”, the current population will generally break into three groups: (my comment below in parenthesis is my personal opinion)

40% apathetic (confused and see no point in participation and no money to lose)
30% left
30% right

The apathetic masses (40%) will simply turn the channel until they find something better to take their minds off of having to think. Thinking is painful when you don’t have a good education or the time and interest to participate in the process. If you don’t see any significant difference in the left or right and feel that either outcome holds no real hope for a better life down on Main Street., there is no reason to participate. Again, this reality is not simply occurring by accident.

The countries decisions are now left to the remaining 60% to decide. The people who do have a stake in the outcome and hopes for a better future if only the right people could be put in the driver’s seat.

First, we have the choice of how we gather the information needed to help us make the best decision.

1. Do research and learn the facts, figures, and history behind the issue. Ask “who benefits and who loses,” and follow the Yellow Brick Road (AKA - the Money Trail). I’ll call these people the American Freethinkers. The American’s who understand the Constitution and the danger of letting ANY one political party overtake all three branches of our government. The checks and balances were put in place to maintain balance and avoid excessive corruption.

OR

2. Do not spend time researching anything and listen to the talking heads on the TV and radio and assume our elected officials are working in our personal best interest with god on their side.

I would estimate only 20% of the 60% or about 25 million of the American’s who participate in the process choose number one above. That amounts to only 12% of American adults. These people actually spend much of their free time doing the tough research needed to make sound decisions about changing anything in our very confusing system. Unfortunately, after all the hard work, the final decisions always come down to what those who take path number two decide. This is horribly frustrating, but it is reality.

Group number two depends heavily on our mass media outlets to help them choose what to believe and decide. On top of this, our religions are used and abused by men of power and wealth who are nothing more than wolves in sheep’s clothes. When a rich man stands up and tells the working and poor man he knows what is best for him, he really means what is best for himself and after all, god is on his side, otherwise he wouldn’t be rich, right?

Now comes the fun part. We wrote off apathetic 40% and the freethinking 12%, this leaves 48% of adult citizens to square off and decide the fate of everything that they are asked to vote on. Let’s assume for a moment that all the votes are counted fairly.

These 48% or 100 million citizens are left to the weapons of mass media which just happen to be owned and operated by global corporations who happen to be controlled by those one million who have super concentrated wealth and pay for all the commercials that fund the programs, who happen to be the same people who pay lobbyists to wine and dine congress and nominate the party heads; they happen to be the same people who fund both parties we have to vote on; and own the hardware and software that counts our votes. Is somebody eating fish, I smell something fishy. Lights are flashing, sirens are blowing, smoke is bellowing, the fish are smelling.

So how do confused people armed with sound bites and factoids decide what and who to vote for? They listen to the conflicting ads and talking heads and toss a coin up to their god and let their gut feeling and emotions guide their decisions. Coins only have two sides and the odds of falling one way or the other are always 50/50.

Oddly, western people of faith agree there is but one god and simultaneously divide into scores of subdivisions with well established barriers built on fear to keep them apart.

Our system leads us to believe George Bush is a “good Christian” and therefore his decisions are with the good of mankind in mind. I would interpret a good Christian to mean one who is a good follower of the teachings of Jesus Christ. How many Christians fit this model? Jesus was a liberal and a humanist with total conviction in his beliefs who accepted all people regardless of their color or lack of wealth or ignorance. Would he engage in a War? Would he join the Baptists in Georgia who made it impossible for Joe the Catholic to do something of great value for his fellow man? Would he tell Joe to move to Boston and give up? Few of us can walk in the footsteps of the man named Jesus, I make no comment as to his being God, but certainly he was of god or god like as he was ready and willing to suffer ridicule, rejection, total economic loss, and to die for what was fair and just. He certainly was not the only man that ever walked the earth to behave in that manner, but the number who has is extremely small.

So, the bottom line is that we are really all one people under one system of nature which operates perpetually. We are all interconnected within this system. Together, “we the people” have total power, a power which no single government or religion could ever dream of controlling. Our man made socioeconomic, political, legal, religious, and communications systems have been designed to divide and conquer. Divided, we are weak and powerless victims to whatever is wished for by those with great power and wealth and they are not about to let any of their power and wealth go without a fight. However, their selfish and weak principals, ethics, and morals won’t stand the test when they have to answer the question, are you ready and willing to die for what you believe in.

Keep up the good fight.

Peace
Rev

posted in Deism - for the unsatisfied seeker - 2 replies

TV

Paul_F — Fri, 14 May 2004 23:49:23 GMT

Hey people,

I've joined this tribe because the intro had some statements and ideas I agree with, and maybe a couple I wanted to know more about.

I have a frew questions for all of you. I have a new roommate (or two) and they are a father/daughter set. The daughter is 16 and has ZERO ambition for anything. Not even for health. She's grossly overweight and when I asked her about it she expressed flatly that she didn't care. When I told her that diabetics have circulatory problems and that their hands and feet get cut off when they're in the advanced stages she said that she didn't care and made noises that technology would fix all her problems by then.

She IS a TV junkie. Up until two weeks ago I didn't have a television in my house. I honestly didn't want one. She spends, quite literally, all her time watching TV. It's gross and it bothers and disturbs me. I can't get around the reality that when I'm really old it's HER generation that is going to be around to take care of me (or not as I think is more likely).

Is anyone else in a similar situation? Does anyone else have to deal with the vapid standard of humanity? If so, how the hell do you do it without a) killing yourself, or b) killing them? I'd ask them to leave but honestly it took two months to even find them as roommates go. I'm not financially situated to toss them out or I would. I can't stand TV or apathetic, fat, brain dead people. It's an offense to my spirit that a child can be this way.

Regards,

Trip

posted in Deism - for the unsatisfied seeker - 6 replies

I'm looking forward to . .

Sun, 21 Nov 2004 15:46:29 GMT

Ben Franklin on the History Channel . .

http://www.historychannel.com/benfranklin/

posted in Deism - for the unsatisfied seeker - 0 replies

JOHN ADAMS

Wed, 10 Nov 2004 15:21:01 GMT

Hello All,

I am a big John Adams fan and like to argue that he is the true founder of our country. In my excitement I started a "John Adams" tribe and am inviting anyone who shares my enthusiam or maybe who disdains our second President to join the tribe.

Hope to see you there!
Martin

posted in Deism - for the unsatisfied seeker - 0 replies

Separation between Church and State Test

Don — Sat, 11 Sep 2004 17:49:22 GMT

Separation between Church and State Test

www.ffrf.org/quiz.html

A true eye opener for Right-Wing Christians.

posted in Deism - for the unsatisfied seeker - 0 replies

God, Self, and Mass Media

Don — Fri, 23 Jul 2004 09:42:00 GMT

God, Self, and Mass Media
By RD

Everyday we have to listen to a myriad of conflicting opinions about everything important to us. Where can we turn to find the comfort only the truth can offer? Some seek God for answers, some look to their self impressions or gut feelings, some turn to their favorite biased mass media news program. Let’s review our three sources of guidance: God, Self, and Mass Media to see which one has the greatest impact on our beliefs and decision making process.

Before we consider God’s existence, I think it may be wise to consider our own existence first. Once we have a handle on who we are; we can give God a fair shot. If God exists or once existed, wouldn’t God want it this way?

Once we know ourselves and our God, we will see how these play secondary roles to the influence of mass media on our collective conscious as a nation.

WHO AM I?

I exist to the extent that I know existence.

I know that I am a product of my genetic attributes and my environmental influences.

I accept that 50% of who I am comes from my genetic makeup and 50% comes from my environmental conditioning. Later you will see why the percentages really do not matter.

We have no control over our genetic makeup; so, 50% is a given portion. We have almost no control over our first 18 out of 75 years of our environmental conditioning. This means 62% of who we are (50% genetic and 12% of our conditioning) is in-fact totally outside of our control. This leaves 38% of who we are open to variation from the world during our lifetime. This variation is caused by the influence of everyone else in the world and every bit of recorded knowledge available to us.

During our adult life, we can chose to seek out new people, new lands, new countries, new information, learn new languages, cultures, philosophies, religions, technologies, and question the 62% we were handed to start with. We can also choose to accept one of the two extreme positions of God =1 per the holy book or God =0 per the Atheists and wonder why neither of these really seem to satisfy like a Snickers bar.

Depending on our fixed 62%, we may or may not even be able to think about this subject. We also can choose to avoid and deny everything outside of our established conditioning to avoid having to struggle with changing our established beliefs.

So, let’s look at the big picture of what is available to us and what we can and cannot expect to understand about the world we are a part of and what we can and cannot choose to include in 38% of our self identity.

Certainly the largest factor in determining our self identity comes from our geographic location. The people we meet, the lands we walk, the culture we experience, the language we use, the information we have access to is mostly dependent on where we happen to live on this planet. I find that the single most important element of our definition as adult individuals that we actually have some control over is our freedom to choose our sources of information. Freedom of speech and access to the truth about people and events is paramount to the growth of a whole society.

LAND

We have a globe of about 144 million square kilometers of land mass. We tend to live our lives out in a small area of maybe 100 square kilometers or 0.00007% or 7 millionths of the land. We won’t fully experience 99.99993% of the land. Let’s not even consider that 75% of the earth is covered in water and what might lie in and under it. Since, our land is unnaturally divided into 192 countries, let’s simplify the geographic limitation to the country we happen to live in. So, we all have very limited pictures of the turf we live on.

COUNTRIES

Our land is divided into 192 countries and we tend to live out our lives in one country. Visiting another country as a tourist on a tour bus for a week is better than reading a tour book; but, this really does not count much towards knowing life in another country. So, we won’t experience life in 95.5% of the world’s countries, we will only experience life in 0.5% of the countries. Every country has a unique culture and history and a wide variety of social, governmental, and belief systems. Which countries do we choose to live in or learn about and why? Again, as individuals we are very limited in our view of how most foreign people live.

PEOPLE

We have over six billion people to learn from today and we won’t meet or communicate with 99.9999 percent of them. Knowing 0.0001% or 6,000 people would be knowing one millionth of the current global population. Of course simply knowing someone does not come close to having them as a family member or close friend. Sometimes we find out we don’t really even know our friends and family members very well.

Also, estimates say over 106 billion people have been born on earth; so, we will never have a chance to meet the 100 billion who have been born and have passed away before we had a chance to meet them. All we can know from the 100 billion dead is compiled in our very limited and biased historical knowledge base. So, which 1 to 6,000 living people do we chose to know or learn about and why do we choose them? Which of the 100 billion dead people do we chose to learn about and why? Once again, we are so very limited in our true understanding of other people outside of our tight little sphere of contacts.

LANGUAGES

Man has had over 6,000 languages to deliver and interpret everything. We tend to only fully understand one language or 0.017% of all languages. Again, we cannot honestly expect English to fully capture all ideas, concepts, and thoughts as well as 6,000 languages can.

INFORMATION

We have a global information and historical knowledge base of over 65 million books (not to mention all the newspapers, magazines, films, video tapes, sound recordings, databases, etc...). An avid reader and consumer of knowledge may be able to read 8,000 books or three books a week for fifty years. This would amount to 0.012% of the current book titles which of course is growing at an exponential pace. We would consume an even smaller percentage of all the other available media; let’s conservatively assume a super human could conceivably have a capacity to consume 0.0001% (one millionth) of all available information in his or her lifetime. Just how smart do you think you are now? Does your holy book really fill in the other 99.9999%?

Additionally, at least 10% of all the available information (most of the latest information) is hidden from the average person as top secret or classified or intellectual property available only to those who can pay for it or who have special rights to access it. So, we are mostly limited to the well filtered and low profit information available to the public domain.

So, what books do we read and which media outlets do we choose to inform us and why?

Another way to look at this is to say out of the very recent 1,000 years of recorded history and living experiences, one cannot know more than 0.0001% or 8.8 hours worth of this information. Let’s not forget that 99.9999% of world events were never recorded and much of what has been offered to us as history is really only the winners side of every war man has waged against himself since he could take notes.

Considering all of the above factors, most of us will live our entire lives in one country, speak one language, and associate with a small number of people. We also tend to go to the same few mass media sources for our information. Since everything else is essentially fixed, our choice of information sources is the most important area of freedom and self choice we have. Unfortunately, our mass media sources are now the owned and controlled by an elite few global conglomerates. The goal is to attract the most viewers and keep them buzzing around in a cloud of confusion and misinformation. TV is truly the ultimate form of control over the masses. Philo Farnsworth, the man who invented television went to his grave wishing he never discovered how to broadcast images; he saw what men were using it for and would not allow a TV in his own house.

We simply must accept that we cannot know the vast majority of truth about man’s history and current reality. We must open our minds to new sources of information and make decisions on facts, logic, and lived experience and not allow those who run the television to do our thinking for us.

Now it should be obvious that once we reach adulthood, most of who we are is never going to change and a good chunk has essentially a finite number of highly visible and well filtered choices to consider in our quest for finding the answer to the questions: Who am I? Where is God? What is the truth?

Without freedom of speech, of press, of religion, and assembly and without free access to truthful information, we cannot make choices in our best interest. We cannot have a fair shot at knowing who we are, yet alone who anyone else is. We are forced to accept what the TV and government and corporation tells us about ourselves. We have to choose the lesser of opposing evils in every major political, financial, and moral decision we face. We never even notice that there is always a man behind the curtain laughing as he counts his ever growing income and assets while we blame everything wrong with America on the left or the right. We totally lose site of who we are as united American’s.

Our corporate, political, and religious leaders all bury us in propaganda, advertising, and the road to salvation. TV shows, radio programming, movies, newspapers, school books, and consumer products are more and more emanating from one mouth as the global conglomerates take ownership of every aspect of the information supply chain.

The majority is left believing our land is the best land, our country is the best country, our language is the best language, our leaders are honest and caring, and the news station we watch is the best source for information. We start believing that everyone else can be understood by a few broad stroke labels such as liberal or conservative, Christian or atheist, Democrat or Republican, Patriot or Terrorist. No additional information, knowledge, or understanding is required. Most of the thinking is done for us and we just need to choose “A” or “B.”

All this misinformation does nothing but divide people into two equal and opposing camps thus eliminating any hope for “We the People” to come together, rise up, and control the wealthy elite minority that controls all aspects of our life on this planet.

We are reduced to making decisions based on emotional hot buttons that fit with our religious teachings or our acceptance and identification with one of the broad labels used to describe us. We have become slaves and easily herded sheep through misinformation and our freedoms are stripped away without our even noticing.

So, now ask yourself: Who am I? Do you have a list of labels to identify with? Do you think you could ever answer this question if most of the information you pay attention to is provided for maximum viewer ship through market segmentation and not maximum truth?

WHO IS GOD?

Unfortunately, most religions teach us that we need to know God in order to be saved. Not just any God; but, the God that is neatly predefined for us in the widely accepted holy books. We are to simply believe these books were written by God and they have never been altered during the course of man’s bloody war torn history. It’s all in the book, just open, read, and believe and there is no need to search any further.

Likewise, atheist books teach us that there is no proof that God exists and again there is no need to search any further. Once we take either of these polar positions, we severely limit our perspective by placing these filters on everything that comes to our mind and senses that disagree with these definitions. Could these views be all wrong? Could we be missing something?

Well, to answer this we first have to remember how little we know about the world, our very own 0.0001% of reality is not much compared to all we do not currently know about the world and the vastness of space, time, and possible other dimensions surrounding us. Certainly to know God would require at least acceptance of the measurable fact that we as individuals are not much smarter than single cell life forms when compared to the body of all known and unknown knowledge. Socrates would agree with this position, don’t you think?

I would suggest we first define what God is before we try to determine God’s existence. Otherwise we will be looking for something we may never find. I define God is in the 99.99999999% of all things unknown to us. Every time I learn something about myself or our world or the people in it, I find another tiny piece of God. Every time I connect with someone new, I see something clearly for the first time, or change my mind set about something previously engrained; I experience God. Does this description make any sense to you?

God is the history that connects all recorded and unrecorded time. God invisibly connects all the living and dead and yet to be born together in a stand of DNA. God is larger than time, space, and matter and smaller than atoms and quarks. All these are limited and inconclusive pieces of an infinite puzzle. Only through questioning, listening, and reflection do we get closer to the truth about anything.

God is too vast and complex to find in a handful of ancient holy books. It is time for the average person to look beyond the ancient holy books. It is also time for us to cast off the chains of our corrupt new age mass media. The television, radio, newspaper, and magazine have taken away our ability to tell facts from fiction and truth from lies. I call these mediums the weapons of mass media and they are the most destructive weapons ever know to man as they destroy logic and twist the truth for billions of people in all corners of the world.

Placing limits on ourselves or God is an insult to the intelligence given to us. Intelligence allows us to ask why over and over and over until a logical and universally acceptable answer is given. To immediately arrive at a black or white answer about complex issues and people is not thinking, it’s accepting labels provided by people with a bigger agenda. An agenda to divide and conquer people, slap labels on them, and sell them some product, service, or opinion. Things like: War is good and peace is anti-American; tax breaks for the rich are good for poor and working people; weapons of mass destruction are bad except if we own or sell them; debt is bad and credit cards are good; people on the left are stupid, bleeding heart, tree hugging hippies; people on the right are self-centered, heartless, rigid red necks and on and on.

Yes, the truth, the real you, and god can be found under all the labels you wear and paste on others. Only through questioning and discovery of truthful and unbiased information sources can you enjoy freedom and oneness with God and peace within yourself.

So, it should now be clear that who you are is mostly dependent on where you are in the world and the information you are fed. We can’t beam into anyplace we want to live or start speaking any language we care to speak; so, the only readily changeable part of us is where we choose to go for information. If our source is biased and full of propaganda, we have no hope of finding the truth, inner peace, god, or a peaceful coexistence with our fellow man.

The F.C.C. seeks to protect us from profanity while allowing broadcasters to lie and spew propaganda, false advertising, and to report news in the form of sensational sound bites by newscasters who employ every known fallacy into their stories.

Our political leaders spend hundreds of millions of dollars on sound bite advertising to tell us how bad the other guy is and what a wonderful world it will be when they take office. Their speeches are nothing more than well crafted fallacious arguments. They look and sound strong and reassuring and people tend to agree only because of the party label they wear. The false logic used in political speeches is mostly unnoticed by the masses.

This is the Age of Information and he who controls information, controls the world. Mass media is the Shepard of our collective conscious. The role of individuals is to believe in mass media propaganda. The role of the ancient God is to demand obedience and acceptance of man’s station in life and to seek his reward in the hereafter or suffer eternal punishment.

For mankind to evolve, we need a new information system that is more than a tool for the elite to keep the masses at odds with each other. The TV is not our God and our teacher. We need to let everyone use their intelligence and freely access as much education as they can handle. This would invigorate our economy, increase productivity, and raise the standard of living for everyone.

Stay tuned and we will be right back after this message from our sponsor.

posted in Deism - for the unsatisfied seeker - 0 replies

God Exists - Here's Why

Don — Fri, 24 Oct 2003 00:34:02 GMT

A young Tribesman (21) asked me what I could tell him about Albert Einstein and I thought my answer would be a good topic for my Agnostic friends.

"What impressed me even more about Einstein were his views on religion. His quote follows:

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." Einstein once wrote to explain his personal creed: "A religious person is devout in the sense that he has no doubt of the significance of those super-personal objects and goals which neither require nor are capable of rational foundation."

This fits well with a philosophy called Deism; which I have found has allowed me to get past the question of God and on with living my own life."

So, it is perfectly comforting for me to know that "God" did, does, and always will exist as "God" can justly be defined as everything that I will never be able to comprehend. With something like 70 million books to read, I have 69.997 million to go and books only cover about 0.000001% of the information available in other formats and of course there is 10 to the 50th worth of stuff that will never be recorded.

So, I cannot know the unknowable and I'm not going to waste this one short life trying. God is very happy being one big ball of unknowns. There is no good reason to debate if God is inside of us or outside of us or traveling through or away from us. It doesn't matter if God can hear our prayers or meditations. The only big decision to make is if you can accept the concept of God as being a big pile of all the things not yet understood by human minds, especially your own mind. Once you accept this, God is no longer a burden but a relief. Now you can prioritize your checklist of smaller questions and things you want to learn and do with life. Things like, do we need nuclear bombs and Iraqi oil, shoe checks at the airport, less funding for education, less taxes for our wealthiest friends, more American jobs in India and China, another Walmart or McDonalds or Enron........ So from this day forward, when asked: Do you believe in God, I will say with absolute certainty - YES; let's compare our GOD checklists, I can use some help with........

posted in Deism - for the unsatisfied seeker - 10 replies

John Toland

Scott — Fri, 02 Jan 2004 20:11:57 GMT

Anyone know where you can purchase or download the works of John Toland?

Thanks.

Jeff

posted in Deism - for the unsatisfied seeker - 2 replies

Thomas Paine

Don — Fri, 02 Jan 2004 22:03:03 GMT

Quote from Thomas Paine:

"I believe in one God, and no more; and I hope for happiness beyond this life.

I believe the equality of man, and I believe that religious duties consist in doing justice, loving mercy, and endeavoring to make our fellow-creatures happy.

But, lest it should be supposed that I believe many other things in addition to these, I shall, in the progress of this work, declare the things I do not believe, and my reasons for not believing them.

I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church.

All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.

I do not mean by this declaration to condemn those who believe otherwise; they have the same right to their belief as I have to mine. But it is necessary to the happiness of man, that he be mentally faithful to himself. Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in disbelieving; it consists in professing to believe what he does not believe.

It is impossible to calculate the moral mischief, if I may so express it, that mental lying has produced in society. When a man has so far corrupted and prostituted the chastity of his mind, as to subscribe his professional belief to things he does not believe, he has prepared himself for the commission of every other crime. He takes up the trade of a priest for the sake of gain, and, in order to qualify himself for that trade, he begins with a perjury. Can we conceive anything more destructive to morality than this?

Soon after I had published the pamphlet COMMON SENSE, in America, I saw the exceeding probability that a revolution in the system of government would be followed by a revolution in the system of religion. The adulterous connection of church and state, wherever it had taken place, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, had so effectually prohibited, by pains and penalties, every discussion upon established creeds, and upon first principles of religion, that until the system of government should be changed, those subjects could not be brought fairly and openly before the world; but that whenever this should be done, a revolution in the system of religion would follow. Human inventions and priest-craft would be detected; and man would return to the pure, unmixed, and unadulterated belief of one God, and no more."

Does this not rock your world?

Derided by the public and abandoned by his friends, he died in 1809 in New York City, a drunk and a pauper. The whereabouts of his remains are unknown today.

I salute you Thomas Paine.

posted in Deism - for the unsatisfied seeker - 0 replies

New religion

Rebecca — Sun, 16 Nov 2003 17:08:57 GMT

I have created a new religion that I think you would really appreciate, at least in part. I am not looking for converts, but if any of its principles resonate with you all the better. Please check it out and pass it on:
www.responsiblism.com

posted in Deism - for the unsatisfied seeker - 4 replies