Thank you for the very thoughtful post Ben. You are a true seeker and have gathered many fine references from history to help you find comfort and a solid foundation in your position and response to me.

Let's start with making sure we cite Einstein's belief system correctly. He was quite clear on the subject.

From "Subtle is the Lord-- " : the science and the life of Albert Einstein by Abraham Paris, Oxford University Press, Oxford & New York, 1982.
His was not a life of prayer and worship. Yet he lived by a deep faith--a faith not capable of rational foundation--that there are laws of Nature to be discovered. His lifelong pursuit was to discover them. His realism and his optimism are illuminated by his remark: 'Subtle is the Lord, but malicious He is not' ('Raffiniert ist der Herrgott aber boshaft ist er nicht.'.'). When asked by a colleague what he meant by that, he replied: 'Nature hides her secret because of her essential loftiness, but not by means of ruse' ('Die Natur verbirgt ihr Geheimnis durch die Erhabenheit ihres Wesens, aber nicht durch List.').

I like to reduce concepts into the smallest parts while trying to maintain the concept. So, I think we can sum up his belief system as: deep faith, rational foundation, discovering the undiscovered laws of nature, realism, optimism, Lord (He).

I try not to overreact to the traditionally accepted definitions to words like Lord or God. I have found it’s helpful not to totally reject the spiritual concept of the big Kahuna.

So, yes you are accurate in stating Einstein was a very restricted Deist with a naturalistic or pantheistic bent. I needed to pin one catch all label on him and Deist (albeit a weak French Deist) was the best I could come up with. At least we can agree that Einstein was not an atheist.

I spent a few boyhood years as a Christian followed by the rest of my 45 years struggling with being an atheist in a theist America. Struggling because there is no comfort in the absolute certainty that "God" does not exist in any way, shape, or form. There is no more validity to god = 0 then god = 1. They are both foolish and illogical positions. I personally have found no true atheist on this planet. I have found many who use the label and then spend their lives studying every religion, philosophy, and scientific method to build their case. Build they might, but achieve in proving god=0, sorry, no can do, and for me it’s not a very comforting journey along the way. In fact it was much more of a tormenting and uncomfortable position that distracted me from finding the power and energy derived from accepting that god is everywhere I look. God is everything I know and everything I do not know, I cannot separate myself from the concept.


As a man, I should not think myself to be the most important or significant element of the universe. We are simply biological creatures who have temporarily inhabited this planet and who have happened to evolve intellectually over a recent and very tiny slice of eternity to the point where we can question our very existence.

Most atheists will say they simply have found no proof and no reason to believe in anything beyond the physical body. To me this says they are looking for or expecting in some way that there is a possibility of them finding this proof, or sufficient reason to start believing in something that is or at least was outside our immediate human comprehension.

So, here I am today, after reading and writing everything I can absorb for 40 years and I cannot say god =0 or god =1. All I wanted was some comfortable foundation to relax my ever searching mind. I have finally found this peace of mind and this peace is what most people seek and desire. A place of balance, a center, a common ground where the seed can be planted and the remaining days of my life can be spent on matters of significance to someone other than myself. (Ralph Waldo Emerson comes to mind) If you don't know the poem I refer to, please tell me and I will share it.)

Suddenly, it dawned on me that I have missed the whole point of living. I can still have a belief system, a god, and a faith that is derived from my ignorance just like every other religious person has; but, without the dogma, without absolute certainly or uncertainly, without a holy leader who claims to have a special connection to god.

Remember Socrates ...”if any of you think that I am allowing myself to assume what is not true, he must interrupt and challenge me. I am not speaking dogmatically from the certainty of assured knowledge; I am simply your fellow explorer in the search for truth.”

Encyclopedia Britannica: “Socrates had to admit that he was wiser than others, just because he alone was aware of his own ignorance. This account is plainly tinged with the usual "irony." Socrates took the Delphic oracle seriously enough to probe into its real import. He believed himself charged with a mission from God to make his fellowmen aware of their ignorance and of the supreme importance of knowledge of what is for the soul's good. This is proved by his declaration that he was more than ready to face instant death rather than to neglect his commission.”

I would like to see more young people open their minds, to start asking questions, and to use logic and reason with less need to attack or defend. Only then, will others see the light that is so well hidden by mass media propaganda developed by dogmatic religions, government and corporate institutions, and greedy unethical individuals disguised as people to look up to.

Quoting the dead is always helpful as they continue to live beyond their grave as long as we remember them. However, I would like free thinkers to stand up and start a new religion that people living today can benefit from.

Ben, I want to thank you for stimulating my brain today. Now, I have to go fix our furnace and deliver some trash to the dump. (Well that was before I noticed Tribe.net was down. I have since finished my chores and had a good night at my wife’s company Christmas party.)

Read your second post. It’s all good; it’s nice to see a young man think about the ramifications of engaging another man before proper introduction.

CUL
Rev.